Welcome to The Career Advantage Show
I am your host, Tony Pisanelli
On this show, we dive deep with our guests to uncover real stories, practical insights, and proven strategies that will help you reclaim your career power, navigate transitions, and design what’s next with confidence.
My very special guest today is Henry Wong ...
Henry Wong is an award-winning advertising professonal, author of Telling Your Story, Building Your Brand, and sought-after speaker on Narrative Intelligence. Formerly EVP, Creative Director at Saatchi & Saatchi, he’s helped shape some of the world’s biggest brands. Now as a brand strategist, board advisor, and keynote speaker, he helps leaders and organizations find clarity in their own stories. His journey reflects a shift from chasing success to designing significance and helping others do the same.
Transcript
[00:00.000 --> 00:11.960] Welcome to the Career Advantage Show, where we help you reclaim your career power and design your working life on your terms.
[00:12.340 --> 00:26.060] I'm Tony Piscinelli, and each week I sit down with leaders who have faced career-defining moments, such as a devastating job loss, burnout, stagnation, or even workplace harassment,
[00:26.060 --> 00:33.100] and being able to turn these difficult circumstances into powerful and greater opportunities.
[00:33.800 --> 00:39.560] All right. Welcome to the latest Career Advantage Show.
[00:39.860 --> 00:45.080] Today I'm speaking to Henry Wong, all the way from Toronto, Canada.
[00:46.040 --> 00:51.960] Henry is a brand strategist, author, and speaker. Welcome, Henry.
[00:51.960 --> 01:00.800] Thank you, Tony. Thanks so much for having me. Actually, I wish I was in your country hanging out because the weather is quite cold here.
[01:01.260 --> 01:07.080] So hopefully send some warm vibes my way and we'll have a good session today.
[01:07.940 --> 01:14.700] Yes, indeed. There's plenty of sunshine in Melbourne, Australia at the moment, so we've got a perfect 20-degree type day.
[01:14.700 --> 01:28.640] Wonderful. All right. Henry, personal branding has fascinated me now for a number of years, and it did because I started to appreciate as a career coach
[01:28.640 --> 01:41.760] that people should start identifying less and less with some sort of company title and start connecting to their own personal brand.
[01:41.760 --> 01:50.180] So I want to explore that in our conversation today. So firstly, let's take you back in your career, in your early days.
[01:50.660 --> 02:00.340] When did you come across the idea of the importance of a personal brand and storytelling and how those two elements fit together, potentially?
[02:00.340 --> 02:08.580] You know, I think it was probably in my mid-career, a political group approached me.
[02:08.760 --> 02:16.920] They had a candidate that they were hoping to put front and center, and they loved the campaigns I was working on for Toyota.
[02:17.560 --> 02:24.360] And they said, can you do this same sort of idea or notion for our candidate?
[02:24.360 --> 02:29.680] And I gave it some thought, and I realized that people and products are pretty much the same.
[02:29.840 --> 02:35.660] So I began structuring a lot of my thinking around people brands as much as product brands.
[02:36.180 --> 02:40.440] And the answer was, yes, I could. And I helped develop a brand around it.
[02:40.460 --> 02:43.120] And I realized the commonality was very much the same.
[02:43.180 --> 02:51.540] And I think it's what you were alluding to, Tony, that a lot of brands are based on a story, some sort of way of connecting with people.
[02:51.540 --> 02:58.060] So that's really how I got started in this whole area of helping people manage their personal brands.
[02:59.300 --> 03:09.200] Okay. But was there, before then, was there an experience either very early days of your career or childhood even,
[03:09.780 --> 03:14.820] where stories started to become seeded or anchored in Henry?
[03:15.620 --> 03:19.880] Yeah. I mean, I didn't realize it until I connected the dots later in life.
[03:19.880 --> 03:22.620] But I grew up in the back of a Chinese restaurant.
[03:22.720 --> 03:24.860] My parents didn't speak a word of English.
[03:24.860 --> 03:30.500] So I was thrust to front of the house, you know, with barely a command of the English language myself.
[03:30.500 --> 03:40.040] But I found that by sharing stories, by talking to the customers, not only did I find out a lot about life and people who surrounded me,
[03:40.040 --> 03:49.760] but the more I shared stories, the more I shared stories, the more personable I was, the more I filled that tip jar that was on the counter.
[03:50.280 --> 04:02.400] So it was a little bit of an eye-opener for me that stories could lead to better things or a way of shaping even my job and later on my career, of course.
[04:02.400 --> 04:12.980] I worked in the world of advertising for well over 25 years, and we know the best commercials, the best advertising, the best communications are often story-based.
[04:13.140 --> 04:24.340] So little did I know back then how much that would inform the career and the life that I'm now leading based on just simple storytelling.
[04:24.340 --> 04:32.780] So back to that childhood event, they used to tip you when you shared a story.
[04:34.540 --> 04:40.300] Is that because they really appreciated the story and got something out of it and they connected with you?
[04:40.780 --> 04:42.560] Because stories do that, don't they?
[04:42.580 --> 04:45.940] They form a connection, a trust connection, ideally.
[04:46.880 --> 04:48.080] Yeah, very much so.
[04:48.080 --> 04:57.000] And I think the ability to share some, I guess, insight into my life opened up that empathy on the other side.
[04:57.060 --> 05:03.720] Because there are a lot of people who tell stories, and they're not often good stories, but the good stories are the ones that can connect emotionally.
[05:04.440 --> 05:11.180] And by, I guess, intuition or a heightened sense of EQ, I mean, I was all of 11 back then.
[05:11.180 --> 05:20.440] And so I just knew by sharing certain elements, I could, you know, connect well with people, and they would like me as a result of that.
[05:20.860 --> 05:31.480] I could see, and later on in life, as I began dissecting and deconstructing storytelling, I realized these are often the skills that even con artists use, you know, to try to connect people.
[05:31.480 --> 05:38.780] So I was just using it as a way of, hopefully for good, as opposed to something nefarious.
[05:39.640 --> 05:43.700] Yes, ethically rather than mischievously, obviously, Henry.
[05:45.100 --> 05:55.960] Were there TV programs that you were drawn to as a child that, again, reinforced and gave you this story theme for your career journey?
[05:55.960 --> 06:04.220] Yeah, you know, I think as a child, I mean, just even now to this day, I simply love film, I love movies.
[06:04.580 --> 06:17.320] And there's a very common structure within movies that I've always applied to helping people and products with their brand, which is there's a problem that's put together that is thrust to the main character.
[06:17.560 --> 06:22.080] It puts them into a journey, what we often refer to as a hero's journey.
[06:22.080 --> 06:34.600] They overcome that obstacle, and in doing so, there's a wonderful resolution that is enacted, and people wonderfully identify with it.
[06:34.940 --> 06:42.700] So it's a very common structure in terms of a story where problem, solution, and then resolution or answer to it.
[06:42.700 --> 06:52.600] So if you can sort of capture that, even as a person or even as those within business, a case study, it connects well with people.
[06:52.780 --> 06:58.200] How you do it, how the style of it is enacted really is the magic behind it, of course.
[06:58.340 --> 07:11.820] But I was very, you know, to answer your question, I was very much influenced by all those wonderful adventure movies, the James Bond movies, the sort of superhero movies of the past.
[07:11.820 --> 07:16.540] They were just sort of wonderful ways of lighting my imagination up.
[07:16.840 --> 07:21.800] And I could see it as I trace back in my career and many of the commercials that I created.
[07:21.920 --> 07:35.160] I could see sort of send-ups or imitations of those James Bond movements, you know, and things of that sort that helped to propel my career, but at the same time helped me structure a story.
[07:35.160 --> 07:44.260] Yes, on that, I was really captivated by the Indiana Jones movie series.
[07:45.520 --> 07:50.000] They were very much around the hero's journey aspect of that.
[07:50.340 --> 07:56.620] I mean, you talked about and led me to my own childhood of that, you know, that little boy behind the counter talking.
[07:56.620 --> 08:05.620] I was very much like that short-round character, very fast-talking, animated, and was very keyed into what was going on.
[08:05.720 --> 08:12.520] But I was a little bit of a character for a part of my life as a little Chinese boy growing up.
[08:13.400 --> 08:13.920] Perfect.
[08:13.920 --> 08:34.240] All right, so if I was to go back and look back in my corporate day, I rubbed shoulders with a lot of engineering, IT, technology people, finance people, and I would attend presentations about whatever was going on in the company.
[08:34.240 --> 08:49.980] And, Henry, I would have to endure these presentations that were dry, factual, a lot of PowerPoint slides that really put you to sleep, to be honest.
[08:49.980 --> 09:03.940] How do we get these people to appreciate the importance of stories and develop the ability to share them?
[09:06.080 --> 09:10.460] You know, it's very much based on who the audience is.
[09:10.460 --> 09:30.660] And it can be difficult simply to manifest a story when you're just showing facts and figures and that where the story can come from is a little bit of the behind the scenes, the backstory to it, the background, why it's important for the audience to pay attention to.
[09:30.760 --> 09:34.460] So there's a context for which it can be presented.
[09:34.460 --> 09:46.440] But I think as people become better and acquire the skill of storytelling, they'll find ways in which they can make these drier presentations a little bit more friendlier.
[09:46.700 --> 09:52.940] A lot of it, as you know, particularly where it becomes a lot of data-driven things, it's often top line.
[09:53.600 --> 10:02.400] People would often gravitate more to what is the essence of what you're presenting, and that can be much more interesting than the facts and figures.
[10:02.400 --> 10:11.280] Those can be presented later in a structure of telling a story or when you're making a claim through a lot of the work I've done.
[10:11.420 --> 10:15.720] I find that it's important, but it supports what the main story is.
[10:16.120 --> 10:24.880] So I think the key to answer your question is really to find the thread by which this information is important and how that story might be weaved in.
[10:24.880 --> 10:41.740] And that data, that information can be the hero to it, but what brings people along that can help support it would be a terrific way of breaking it down and reconstructing it as a narrative and something that people will be a lot more interested in.
[10:42.600 --> 10:42.780] Okay.
[10:43.080 --> 10:43.860] It's interesting.
[10:44.680 --> 10:50.820] Stories have many uses in a person's career, not just presentations.
[10:50.820 --> 11:08.660] I remember many years ago working with a younger gentleman, and he was about to go for an interview to be a salesman for a luxury car manufacturer, car dealership.
[11:08.660 --> 11:21.420] And I knew that at some point in the interview, Henry, they would ask him the question, well, why do you want to, you know, sell cars?
[11:22.400 --> 11:24.220] And you better have a very good answer.
[11:24.220 --> 11:33.700] Not only a good answer, preferably a story of why this gentleman was passionate about cars.
[11:33.700 --> 11:40.600] Because a lot of people now are looking for your passion, not just your skill of being doing anything or something.
[11:41.080 --> 11:43.280] Because when you're passionate, you're totally committed.
[11:43.600 --> 11:47.080] When you're committed, you're connected, and you're actually invested in that job.
[11:47.800 --> 11:57.780] So he, during my conversation with him, our coaching session, he shared a story of as a 17-year-old, his father took him to the Australian Grand Prix.
[12:00.080 --> 12:01.160] Oh, that's really wonderful.
[12:01.160 --> 12:08.360] And he had the opportunity to sit behind the wheel on one of the practice days of a Ferrari.
[12:11.060 --> 12:14.160] And that's where his love of cars came from.
[12:15.440 --> 12:17.700] So I said, you've got the story.
[12:17.860 --> 12:19.660] How about you share that at the interview?
[12:20.980 --> 12:22.980] And I think that's a wonderful take, Tony.
[12:23.040 --> 12:25.540] I think that was just terrific advice.
[12:25.540 --> 12:32.220] I've found with many of the people I've worked with, a story really is that conduit to getting to know people.
[12:32.380 --> 12:35.660] Because I can share with you a resume, which just has facts and figures.
[12:35.660 --> 12:40.200] But if I told you a little bit more of a tale, like your client, that would be quite wonderful.
[12:40.560 --> 12:43.300] If I was doing that interview, I'd share a similar story.
[12:43.400 --> 12:48.100] Mine was really based on all these wonderful road trips that my father used to take the family on.
[12:48.100 --> 12:52.760] So I have this love affair with cars because it represented a great feeling to it.
[12:53.000 --> 12:59.500] And this is the sort of feeling that I would bring to the job and help pass on in an infectious way.
[12:59.500 --> 13:10.560] So as much as story is important, and hopefully what he shared demonstrated his passion and enthusiasm for cars and that,
[13:10.620 --> 13:16.020] but at the same time translated into what it means for this audience, in this case, the employer.
[13:16.320 --> 13:21.460] What would it mean to him if he took on that job with that level of enthusiasm?
[13:22.020 --> 13:25.140] And this is, again, how story comes to that conclusion.
[13:25.140 --> 13:30.140] And if he can find the right way of doing it, then you can connect very well with people.
[13:31.020 --> 13:35.700] Yes, no doubt he went on to win that interview.
[13:35.820 --> 13:41.720] And that story was a key part of it because he was someone who recognized, Henry,
[13:41.840 --> 13:45.700] that people just don't buy cars for the car just to get around him.
[13:45.920 --> 13:48.180] There's some deeper meaning to it.
[13:48.460 --> 13:50.520] Yeah, it fits within the story.
[13:50.860 --> 13:52.600] Exactly, very much that.
[13:52.600 --> 13:55.140] For you, it was time with the family.
[13:55.420 --> 14:01.580] For him as a seven-year-old, he came away and stepped out of that Ferrari feeling more confident
[14:01.580 --> 14:04.860] that, hey, I've just been behind a Ferrari.
[14:05.520 --> 14:14.680] And some people derive confidence and status and a feeling of success because they drive a particular car.
[14:16.280 --> 14:17.320] Very much so.
[14:17.320 --> 14:25.080] And I think, I mean, to your point, the whole idea of a story is just to unveil an element of yourself.
[14:25.400 --> 14:33.840] So for those listening, it is really important to have a stable of stories and a way of demonstrating your skill,
[14:33.980 --> 14:41.020] not simply by saying, yes, I'm a very organized, detailed person or I lead with strong authority.
[14:41.020 --> 14:46.000] It's having those examples, those little stories, those little stories are really case studies,
[14:46.120 --> 14:50.000] but told in such a way that they're engaging, told in a not engaging way.
[14:50.080 --> 14:57.260] They simply become facts and figures and nothing more than data on a screen or rhyming off traits.
[14:57.260 --> 15:08.660] So the ability to storytell is very paramount to many leaders trying to move a group or lead a organization
[15:08.660 --> 15:12.860] or simply to connect with people in a more profound way.
[15:13.660 --> 15:14.340] All right.
[15:14.380 --> 15:20.280] So just as we wrap up, Henry, if you were working with someone who's listening to this,
[15:20.280 --> 15:27.220] who says, look, Henry, I'd love for you to sit down with me and unravel my brand story,
[15:28.280 --> 15:33.360] what would be the three key areas that you would look at to help him do that?
[15:34.380 --> 15:40.980] You know, I think the most important thing is to be able to stand for something, represent something.
[15:40.980 --> 15:47.860] And the work I do often delves into very deeply how, what that person stands for.
[15:47.920 --> 15:50.700] Because once you work out what your unique positioning in the market,
[15:50.700 --> 15:54.560] then hopefully you have an advantage over your competition,
[15:54.560 --> 15:58.140] whether it's in the job market or whether it's in the business market.
[15:58.580 --> 16:04.980] From there, you center on what that key message is that revolves around that positioning.
[16:06.000 --> 16:09.380] Once you have that key message, then you can build the story around it.
[16:09.380 --> 16:12.600] So it's a little bit of a process at the same time,
[16:12.600 --> 16:19.840] but it's going through very much what a product does in terms of unveiling what it stands for.
[16:19.840 --> 16:26.900] If I said to you, Volvo, you would probably think safety, Apple, you might think innovation.
[16:27.280 --> 16:30.820] Each of those have a very strong key word in which it stands for.
[16:31.180 --> 16:36.480] But all the stories that wrap around those key words, that key message, that key position,
[16:36.980 --> 16:39.340] often will emulate from that.
[16:39.380 --> 16:46.660] So anybody who is trying to determine what they stand for can create a story once they arrive
[16:46.660 --> 16:50.300] to what that position and key word and message will be.
[16:50.940 --> 16:53.520] And is the other element in that the who?
[16:53.860 --> 16:59.620] Because a lot of these professionals identify with a title rather than with themselves.
[17:01.360 --> 17:01.880] Yes.
[17:02.400 --> 17:04.580] How would you bring out the who element, Henry?
[17:04.580 --> 17:13.400] I think that can be often not dangerous, but confining, because if you are only represented
[17:13.400 --> 17:20.920] by your title, then if you lose that position or you move on to another one or you're assigned
[17:20.920 --> 17:24.740] another position, then are you still the same person?
[17:24.860 --> 17:26.200] Are you still Henry Wong?
[17:26.280 --> 17:28.120] Are you still Tony Pisanale?
[17:28.120 --> 17:34.160] What is it about you that can carry forth to each of those positions?
[17:34.320 --> 17:36.860] And that's really what the personal brand is, because it's portable.
[17:37.360 --> 17:43.900] You may be defined by a new job, a new company, but your brand should stay the same, which is
[17:43.900 --> 17:49.120] often based on the things you stand for and the personality that supports it, of course.
[17:49.120 --> 17:50.760] Well put.
[17:50.900 --> 17:51.300] All right.
[17:51.640 --> 17:56.720] So, Henry, you've shared some very powerful insights during our conversation.
[17:56.720 --> 18:02.540] If people want to find out more about you, and as I mentioned earlier, you're also an
[18:02.540 --> 18:08.500] author, do you want to just share with people how they can get access to your book and what
[18:08.500 --> 18:09.560] the book is about as well?
[18:10.340 --> 18:10.760] Well, sure.
[18:10.760 --> 18:20.280] Yeah, so I actually have a book that I wrote during the COVID years when I had some downtime.
[18:20.500 --> 18:22.700] It revolves around storytelling.
[18:23.040 --> 18:25.840] It's titled Telling Your Story, Building Your Brand.
[18:26.000 --> 18:30.600] So, it's a playbook for people looking to bring their personal brand to life.
[18:30.800 --> 18:32.260] It's available on Amazon.
[18:32.580 --> 18:36.480] Happy to share a link if you have a means to do that.
[18:36.480 --> 18:42.300] But a lot of what I do these days is talks and keynotes.
[18:42.620 --> 18:48.240] So, I'm a speaker as well as an author around these very topics in terms of leadership brands,
[18:48.340 --> 18:49.400] in terms of storytelling.
[18:50.000 --> 18:53.880] You can find out more about me on henrywong.co.
[18:54.240 --> 18:56.740] And there's a link to my book there as well.
[18:57.860 --> 18:58.200] Perfect.
[18:58.360 --> 18:58.760] All right.
[18:58.940 --> 19:00.580] Thank you for joining us, Henry.
[19:00.660 --> 19:01.400] Much appreciated.
[19:01.620 --> 19:02.000] Thank you.
[19:02.760 --> 19:03.380] Thank you, Tony.
[19:03.380 --> 19:05.200] Really great spending time with you.
[19:06.480 --> 19:10.400] Thanks for tuning in to The Career Advantage Show.
[19:10.960 --> 19:16.740] Visit thecareeradvantage.show to subscribe and claim your free career confidential toolkit.
[19:17.500 --> 19:24.560] If you've enjoyed today's episode, I truly appreciate a five-star review on your favorite podcast app.
[19:25.280 --> 19:31.320] And don't forget to share it with your friends and colleagues who might need a little career inspiration.
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